In my previous two posts, I established first that the grades assigned to students are subjective, if not entirely arbitrary; and second, that grades are pragmatically important because admissions, scholarships and jobs hinge on them. In summary, the system of grading is horribly screwed up, and we can’t just ignore it because careers, self-esteem and wheelbarrows of money depend on grades. This drew an interesting objection.
Jo writes: “So it is all bullshit. We know this. Give them what they want and move on to something better…”
I call this the “quityerbitchin” argument: yeah, you have a point, but unless you can tell us how to fix it, shut up already. With this I must agree, so let’s have at it then, shall we?
Two Alternatives to get the Bullshit out of Grading
If grades are subjective, but society pretends they’re objective, and this causes problems, we have two logical possibilities:
1. Embrace the Subjectivity of Evaluation
The first option is to simply accept that grading is subjective – to embrace the subjectivity of evaluation. While this may satisfy the social constructivists and interpretivists, it does cause some societal problems. If grades are just someone’s far-from-impartial opinion of a student, then basing job offers, admissions to schools and millions of dollars of scholarship money wholly or partially on grades smacks of incompetence and irresponsibility. Morality thus compels us to stop using grades as a primary selection criterion. However, it is presently unclear what could then serve as criteria on which to compare students.
While this option remains a possibility, it feels unsatisfying because one of the main functions of grading is to discriminate the good students from the bad.
2. Maximize Grade Objectivity
The other logical alternative is to try to make grades as objective as possible, with the understanding that a measure will always have some degree of error. This can be achieved by applying the same rigorous standard for instrument development that social scientists employ. Since a complete elucidation of the research surrounding the theory of measurement would occupy several volumes, I’ll stick to a few of the major points:
- The instructor must know what construct (e.g. knowledge of geography, or arithmetic proficiency) he or she is trying to measure. Said construct must be clearly and specifically defined.
- The constructs instructors are supposed to measure must be standardized nationally, or better, globally.
- Essays, projects, reports, papers, presentations, etc. must always be graded by several graders. Lack of agreement among graders indicates a problem with the assignment.
- “Objective” tests (multiple choice, etc.) must be pretested and validated. You have to test the test to make sure it measures what it’s supposed to measure and has no confusing questions.
- Students should be graded against a standard (not on a bell curve) and the standard must be a bona fide national, or preferably global, standard, designed by an objective process.
- The 1 to 100 grading scale must be replaced by a coarser scale (no larger than 1 to 5) wherein differences are meaningful enough to achieve reliable scoring.
- Due to the difficulty of creating good measures, schools should share tests that work.
Please note that I am not advocating an academic dystopia of endless public exams filled with countless multiple choice and fill-ins. I suspect that those sorts of tests are incapable of measuring most of the variables that grades should reflect. To me, this list screams out for problem-based learning and a revolution toward educational post-modernism, but that is a topic for another day.
And so dies the “quityerbitchin” argument.
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followup education essay |
[...] Getting the BS out of Grading In my previous two posts, I established first that the grades assigned to students are subjective, if not entirely […] [...]
in Ireland, students sit the Leaving Certificate, which is equivalent to graduating High School in America. Every student in the country who has chosen to sit the exams does so at the same time and has exactly the same papers as everyone else. The papers are then reviewed by an independent board according to whatever standards they have set.
The exams are as difficult as you’d expect with this sort of all-encompassing high standard and it creates a lot of very stressed students but people tend to be pretty satisfied with what they recieve.
The only problem then is that most Irish universities then judge you by the amount of points you’ve recieve on the Leaving Cert and they aren’t always reasonable about it. One direct problem we have because of this is a serious shortage of Irish doctors because you pretty much need to get the maximum points possible in order to study medicine.
I agree that grading is BS, but there are lots of things in the real world that are BS. This is something we are going to have to live with until machines take over the world and we are reduced to batteries.
A standardized test would mean that a degree from MIT and A degree from ITT would be equal.
everything in the world is subjective so why shouldn’t grading.
All it takes is for the student to understand what the teacher like and dislikes. Whether subjective or not, grades can determine intelligence, discipline, and determination. All that needs to happen, is for a student to realize what he needs to do to get an A, and then try his best to get it.
If the teacher likes powerpoints, then do a powerpoint.
If the bibliography is worth 20 points, then remember to do it correctly.
I don’t understand why you imply that something is wrong with the system, when all it takes is for the student to find what the standards are for each class, and act accordingly.
I enjoyed the article, but I do not believe the problem is educators who are unaware grading is subjective or would argue that the majority of grading is not subjective. Many of my college education professors zealously stressed objectivity, and these professors really understood the problems with current grading systems. The only problem was more than half the class just could not grasp the concept. Students seeking a degree in education are not the sharpest bunch. There are tons of slow learners who are STRUGGLING to gain a degree in education because it is easier than most other degrees. When these students, who have been subjectively graded for twenty years, eventually graduate, they will continue to grade subjectively. And these graduates are going to subjectively grade at the grade school and high school level. The bar for education has lowered. We have failed to remain competitive by allowing under-qualified people through the education system. Teachers do not grade objectively, but it is difficult to ask an educator to ensure construct validity when they cannot spell or define it. In a nut shell, we need smarter teachers before we can have objective grading.
Historically philosophers have dominated what standards constituted a worthy education.
Francis Bacon and his successors formed the basis for the renaissance and post-renaissance university system, they took that knowledge should come from things observed vs faith alone. If you want a good example of philosophy in the education system of that time, just think Berkeley(university founded by the philosopher Reverend George Berkeley).
These are the philosophers(also humanists and logicians ect) who usually noticed what was lacking at any particular time in the education system, and would impart a change to fix the system with their influence(I do acknowledge that they couldn’t see past certain prejudices, but even those changed over time.)
But around the latter half of the 19th century the transition went from the philosophy system to a system dominated by psychology and sociology(deviations from means, and that fun stuff we have today). They took the tools of mathematics and science, but misused them in the ways that this article states, and their philosophies don’t allow the acknowledgment of the human(subjective) aspect, kinda ironic. Well if we want to fix the system, then it should fall back to the true philosophers(not the people studying philosophy aka philosophy majors) & creative thinkers who can adapt and can follow reason and perhaps we can get out of this rut. I’m sure they would find that the first solution mentioned in this article would be obvious.
What you expect is just not possible. Any system with humans as a part of it will have human flaws, such as subjectivity. Humans can NEVER be objective. We even now know that humans can’t even observe the world without influencing it. So, objective grading is an impossibility even with standardized tests – the standard itself is subjective. It is a subjective decision that someone or some committee of “wise ones” makes to decide what is important enough to be tested and what isn’t. Too often that decision itself is political too.
You have hit on one of the true conundrums of education. Testing can never be objective, no matter how hard you try to make it so. Remember the old axiom, life isn’t fair. So, why should testing be fair? Why does anything have to be fair? Can anything be fair?
I’m sorry, but I believe that we must embrace subjectivity because we are human. Even machines made by humans – computers – can only evaluate based on criteria that we give them. Even multiple choice tests in math with a right and wrong answer as you have shown can still be filled with subjective choices made by the test makers. It is impossible to have a test without human influence. Science shows us that.
What you are railing at is the unfairness of life. You feel that schooling should be fair. It should provide that the most competent and qualified receive the rewards of academia. This is a wonderful, but Utopian argument worthy of Karl Marx. Watch the movie “Enemy at the Gates.” It has a wonderful moral at the end. The moral is that life can not now, never could and never will be fair.
We are simply flawed humans, and we must muddle on the best we can. If your professors teach you anything of value in college it will be how to teach yourself and how to identify the pathway to success. Once you learn those two things, you really don’t need further education, unless you choose that pathway for yourself.
Mr. C
Education is most definitely inefficient as it is now. It seems as though we are stuck on an education system that was created hundreds of years ago, and it remains largely unmodified. Science is a fantastic example of how things should be done right. It may be true that humans are inherently subjective and cannot, under ordinary circumstances, operate completely objectively, but it is also true that certain methodologies can lead to objectivity. For example, the double blind type study removes subjectivity because the tester doesn’t even know what he is testing. Also, in the scientific world, each and every study and proposed theory is subject to rigorous criticism and retesting. Why education is currently exempt from such criticism is beyond me.
However, if you really want to talk about why our education system is so poorly constructed, you need to adapt the bottom-up perspective. The fact is, when you ask some elementary or junior high school students if they like school, the majority will respond that they do not. That clearly indicates a problem, as interest in subject matter is probably one of the most important aspects of getting the most out of education. If a student is uninterested, he will learn either learn the bare minimum, or he will simply force the information down in order to achieve a desired grade. What we need is to create a system that creates a foundation of interest and love of learning from a young age, rather than the exact opposite. It would only take a single generation to feel the effects of such a system, and I daresay it will be beneficial to society as a whole. It may be, as you say, a revolution.
I’m sort of with Mr. C. Life is unfair. As a student and as a teacher I never could much abide the grading system. My personal (and not especially satisfactory) solution as a teacher was to drift into areas of teaching where grading and credits (equally as bad) were not involved. The relationship was, we will study this topic for a few hours. I will try to be accurate and correct and helpful and pleasant and entertaining in my teaching. You will learn if you are capable and want to.
This is not a global solution; more of a personal cop-out.
Grades are subjective, but then again, they should be. Why? Because life is subjective. What good are grades for anyway if they measure how you cope in situations that are completely out of the everyday life?
Since tests are graded by people, you learn how life works. It’s not like you take _one_ test or write _one_ essay in your life. You have plenty of time to learn how things work and thus the subjective grading systems coaches you for your glorious future in our society.
An example: You write essays for dozens of different teachers during school years. As you see how differently they grade your work you learn how people think and what kind of things our society likes and dislikes. With objective grading you would only learn how to do well in those predefined circumstances, but the scholarship is the only good thing out of it. Compared to the fact that now you also prepare yourself for the real world.
“A standardized test would mean that a degree from MIT and A degree from ITT would be equal.”
That is correct. I see no problem with this. I have been to four Universities of vastly varying tuition costs and the ‘quality of education’ at all four schools were equaly sporadic.
Degrees should be equal between educators anyway. A degree is a certificate validating that you know. If one knows enough to be considered a Master of Computer Science in one school, then all other schools should consider that same person a Master of Computer Science as well. Anything else would be open for corruption, as it is now.
You are an amazing genius to come up with such insightful comments! Right…
Did it ever cross your mind that those teachers who come up with those assessments you complain about, NEVER thought about the subjectivity of grading? Visit any teacher program anywhere and listen in on the conversations, which by the way in many cases are before those student teachers actually teach a practice class, and listen in. Subjectivity in grading is a perennial problem that most teachers out there today rack their brains over on a regular basis. You make it sound like it’s “us” versus “them.” All those teachers used to be “you” and struggle with the current state of the school systems, administrators stuffing new jobs and ways of doing things down their throats, students who do not want anything to do with the content presented, only to read the self-centered schlock you parade as a blog.
Your views on how to correct the problems have some merit, but these are old conversations in the educational world — it’s a shame you were not there for that at the time. You need to sign up for some master’s level educational classes at a decent school; you will see what I mean. Backwards planning, a common tool in curriculum development, is the act of writing the test first and then designing the classes beforehand — that’s old news. The “grading committee” idea is an intriguing one, but with whom will you be comprising in this committee? What are their qualifications? Are they human? And your grading gives no students any breathing room in passing / failing.
Does everyone else see that that this is what our educational system has produced? How depressing.
As a fellow underachiever, I would LOVE for anything you have written here to be a valid excuse for getting bad grades. Unfortunately, none of it is and you just have to realise; work hard, and you’ll get good grades. If you don’t, you’ll end up blogging about how the education system has allegedly screwed you over.
Curriculums and the way things are taught are indeed wrong, but nowhere near the way you have described and that doesn’t mean anyone is any less likely to succeed academically.
However, I found the readability and quality of this article to be pretty good despite the content. B+ for that.
“Grades are subjective, but then again, they should be. Why? Because life is subjective.” Life is subjective, but if I’m taking a test in a science course, I would expect a high level of consistency and objectivity.
“What you expect is just not possible. Any system with humans as a part of it will have human flaws, such as subjectivity. Humans can NEVER be objective.” Compared to what was written in the article: “The other logical alternative is to try to make grades as objective as possible, with the understanding that a measure will always have some degree of error.”
My question is, what is wrong with wanting to improve a system we all agree is not nearly perfect?
In your original post the problems sort in to two categories; the first is the inherent subjectivity of grading, and the second is a series of irrational abuses by professors and teachers.
(sorry for the double post: accident)
The second problem of abuse (mostly 4 and 5) can be simply fixed by profs who are not evil. this is perhaps not easy not do but for the most part (in my experience) profs and teachers don’t do this.
The first problem you present (the inherent subjectivity of grading) seems to me to be less of a problem than you feel it to be. subjective does not mean irrational, it does not mean untruthful. With a mildly competent teacher their subjective grading leads to a fair approximation of what one actually knows. when you take many classes for many years from many teachers they and most of the time they give you a grade you deserve those few times when you get a grade you don’t deserve tend to cancel out or get overwhelmed by the large number of more accurate grades.
compare this to your alternative. in it national standards are used to compare against. lets look at current national and international standards like the SAT or IQ tests. how well have these held up? have these test had no critiques of subjectivity? No. A national standard simply means a universal subjective evaluation. and i could go on but im bored so to summarize.
id rather live subjectively judged in the current system then under what you suggest.
I agree with most of the comments thusfar, but you have to look at more than a single side of grading. objective grading should be in place for facts and arithmetic subjects such as science and math. If you’re in a class that is teaching an absolute way to do things and achieve a right/wrong answer, then objective grading is key, but what about classes that teach critical thinking, research techniques and argument/defending an opinion? I don’t know about you but I hated teachers that graded such tests by looking for keywords in explanations instead of actually taking time to fully grade the questions they created.
Also, from what I’ve read, it sounds like you’ve just had what we’ve all had, shitty teachers who were not properly trained to do their jobs or professors that became professors for being prominent within their field, not for being experts in teaching/educational theory and practice. This wouldn’t be so grand a problem if the US valued education enough to require proper training of their teachers and gave them the resources they needed to work effectively in preparing America’s youth for the rigors of real life [which is subjective, whether you believe it or not].
Lastly, there is always subjectivity within objectivity thanks to the subjective interpretation of whatever objective rules are given by those given the job of interpreting them.
FYI both Western Washington University and Evergreen State College in Washington State provide students with the opportunity to receive entirely qualitative rather than quantitative “grades” in addition to allowing them to develop their own major/concentration. A teacher’s evaluation of a student is also integrated with the student’s evaluation of their learning experience. These students tend to get hired or go to grad school at least as easily as those who receive quantitative grades.
UC Santa Cruz used to be like this but abandoned it. From Wikipedia:
For most of its history, UCSC employed a unique student evaluation system. The only grades assigned were “pass” and “no pass”, supplemented with narrative evaluations. Beginning in 1997, UCSC switched to a conventional letter grading system, but course grades are still supplemented with evaluations. The “pass-no pass” system is still available, but many academic programs limit or even forbid pass-no pass grading. Overall, students may now earn no more than 25% of their UCSC credits on a “pass-no pass” basis.
Apparently it was too difficult to work with grad schools so the university gave up.
While there may eventually be more systematic solutions, ‘cheating’, bribery, and forgery are the most accessible options.
While these methods have always been common, more sophisticated verification methods are causing substantial societal harm. It i constant struggle for people to get around unwarranted obstacles.
I used to teach writing at an elite university and I generally agree with your position that grades are bullshit. In those days, I wished I didn’t have to grade students at all and could just stick to the task of improving peoples’ writing, wherever they were at.
But I think there are a couple elements of your general analysis that are off the mark.
First, you seem to hold the problems of grading entirely against instructors. In my experience, many instructors like myself loathed grades and thought they were pointless (the institution usually requires them). But what is more, the students are deeply invested in the grades. It can get to the point where it’s all students care about. They want to do what will get them a certain grade and nothing else matters. They themselves do not care about the standards, they just want the grade. If the standards were more fair, I do not actually believe most students would be any more accepting of a grade lower than they hoped for. Even when I assured students that they were going to get a decent grade (I was a pretty easy grader) they still more often than not couldn’t think about anything else. So the problems exist on both sides of the instructor/student dynamic.
Second, grades on papers aren’t as subjective as you think. At my university, surveys had been done where different instructors were given the same papers, without a student’s name or anything on it and asked to grade them. In general the grades were all within a third grade of each other (e.g. B to B+ is a third difference). In the end, writing is a craft and a lot more objective than peope who are struggling with their writing realize.
Lastly, in a fundamental sense grades are not bullshit. We live in a hierarchical society, where some people get most of the wealth and privilege and everyone else has to make do. The function of grades is to make sure that this hierarchy is maintained. Even where the differences between students are minimal, for the purposes of a society organized hierarchically we need to divide them up and dole out success only to a few (this is the true logic of the bell curve). You touch upon this but also don’t seem to really delve into the full depth of what is going on here as a social phenomenon. You see it as a pragmatic question, rather than as a question of social divisions.
The purpose of creating a hierarchical society also helps explain why students are just as invested in grades, if not more so, than instructors. They want to compete with their fellow students and outdo them. They want to be the one who makes it to the top and makes more money than everyone else. They don’t care whether it’s fare or based on substantive standards. Until we as a society accept a more equal distribution of wealth, grades will remain necessary and students will want them as much as anyone.
Ok, I just read the three posts in this series, and I, as a student, strongly agree with the first two. Here is the catch: We already have maximised objectivity. Schools want to see students who have two things: Intelligence and Motivation. Many, many schools hinge largely their admissions on a Student Aptitude Test, which tells them how informed the student is compared directly to other students, and is largely objective in the sense that every student is on the saem playing feild; they all know what subjects will be tested, and can prepare as they wish. The motivation is seen in the actual grades because while they do not plainly tell the student’s knowledge, they do tell the students desire to be in a high position. Don’t people always say that high school is about learning how to learn more than learning? Second, the higher education system is extremely scarred, and it seems to be the topic of these posts mainly. I think that actual grades will ultimately matter little in a large setting, because extraordinary minds can rise to the top in interships, and also purely personal accomplishments. An example is this: You have graduated college, and want to attend buisness school. You scored rather poorly on your buisness classes in college, but actually started a rather successful buisness (of extremely small proportions) that showed the graduate program you’re trying to attend that you did, in fact, either innately have or learn enough of the buisness to succeed. They let you in. Basically, I think that accomplishments, be they academic or not, will earn success, and learning is just a tool that teaches people how to make these accomplishments; instead of trying to change the world couldn’t one realise that if they can not benefit from the flawed system they might they not need it at all? Because when it comes down to it, no one had to examin the credentials of Bill Gates; he made his own niche, held it, and became rich. It wouldn’t have mattered if or if not he passed a class in school. And for the rest of us, I guess its time to get thinking!
(If the author reads this and replies please email me the response.)
I honestly could care less about my grades in my classes because I’m generally more focused on my own objectives rather than the professor’s objectives. If the objectives are similar or the same, I’ll generally get an A or A+. If they’re related, I’ll get in the B+, A- range. If they’re not, I’ll generally just focus enough to earn a B- or a B (unless the course is pathetically easy).
I think the problem is that the professor’s objective might not always fit the student’s objective. In that case, it is a good professor that will convince students why they would want to go with the professor’s objectives.
“Students should be graded against a standard (not on a bell curve) and the standard must be a bona fide national, or preferably global, standard, designed by an objective process.”
And who should be in charge of establishing, maintaining and updating this standard? Certainly not the professors you think so poorly of, certainly not yourself who things so poorly of the whole concept of grading….so who?
Its easy enough to talk about the importance of a “objective” standards, but actually assembling one is a bit trickier…have you ever tried to bring together a statement that even just 5 different people can objectively agree on as the last word in a particular topic?
(By the way….if you don’t like bullshit kiddo, then you’re gonna have a fun time in the business world. Be sure to bring up these same arguments when you explain to your boss we you don’t think he’s evaluating your performance objectively at your nexty review)
1) Categorized from 3rd grade as gifted and talented.
2) Attended a magnet school and recieved straight A’s untill my junior year.
3) Got bored. Stopped going to class except Electronics and Computer Science.
4) Failed my senior year and never graduated.
5) Working for a small tech firm where I am given maximum latitude in my schedule, creative endeavors, appreciation for my knowledge and skills, an excellent salary, and I have the free time to continue my learning and research in games and new media.
Conclusion: You’ll end up where you belong bad grades or not.
Jacob, I agree with you completely. In one semester in High School I would have As, Bs, Cs, and Ds, all relating to my interest in the topic. My interest is what my grades measured, never my intellegence, or even grasp of the content (I did decide to study for my calc midterm once, just to see if I could pass, and I aced it. But since Calc was so boring, I went back to my Ds and Fs after that.)
I’m not willing to bend over backwards to prove that I want to get into a good college and bend over backwards some more. Now that I’m out of highschool, I am free to do my own thing and prove myself in my own ways, but there is a big issue with the required education in my country. I remain quite peeved that I had to wait for 13 years before I could go out and work freely on my own.
My only regret is that I did not have the strength of will to drop out of school.
You forgot the most obvious option:
Take down the whole idea that we need to “grade” people.
Exactly!
Grading is subjective and having 50% of my teachers being pro israeli jews growing up in New York City, did not help. For instance, I remember one ahole, who out of the blue liked using racial slurs to refer anything anti-israel.
Is foreign aid (the handout line) subjective?
PS – I have nothing against handouts; the truly needy do indeed deserve. But handouts to a nuclear armed nation? sounds like N.Korea (minus the starving population).
I agree with some of the previous posters that removing the grading system altogether might be a good idea.
I personally believe something closer to the Black Mountain College would work better.
The real world doesn’t use grades, why should school?
Of course the real world uses grades. They call them performance reviews or job evaluations. Not every company uses them, but many if not most do.
I still stick by my original assertion – life is not fair. You can argue endlessly about Utopian solutions that involve multiple layers of committees and double blind research. That is all a waste of time. People will ignore most of it, because it has no relevance in the real world.
If you are gifted, then your gifts will show no matter what. The education system is many things that have been stated above. It is a place for people to be sorted. It does this remarkably well. It sorts out those with a talent for academic ability, athletic ability and social ability. Those who do not fit into those three molds usually see school as a waste of time. And for them it can be.
School is also a place where society keeps the young, so that they are out of the way for the majority of the work week.
School is also a place for society to enforce the social codes of that society. Most of the “social rules” of life are learned at school.
OK, back to the topic – grades. Grades fit the first of the three real purposes for school. They help to sort out students on the basis of academic ability. This is not the same as intelligence. Lots of bright kids do poorly at school because they can’t handle the regimentation. Other bright kids are socially unprepared for school.
So, do grades serve the purpose that they were intended? Yes. And that, among other reasons is why they won’t go away or change.
Several posters have already given great coping methods for how to deal with this, so I won’t. But essentially they boil down to two things: if you want or need good grades find out what the teacher wants or expects and then do it. And secondly, learn how to teach yourself.
That is easier than ever today. The internet is a vast treasure chest of knowledge and expertise. Back in the ’80s when I attended college, it was much harder to teach yourself things because you first had to find the knowledge.
Grades are what they are…a representation of what academia values. That can vary from teacher to teacher, but usually it is the ability to show that you have mastered the material, attendance in class, politeness and the ability to give the instructor what they want.
The real world is no different. Your boss will expect the same qualities and that is the real reason why a college degree is required and expected in many fields. It is proof that you can conform to the culture, first the academic culture and then later the corporate culture.
Mr. C
“Of course the real world uses grades. They call them performance reviews or job evaluations. Not every company uses them, but many if not most do.”
That’s a disingenuous answer. Unless you can show that “performance reviews” and “job evaluations” have the same properties as the grading system- which to me is very dubious at the very least- you cannot draw such an analogy.
Francois
You have obviously not ever had a raise or a promotion hanging on the line based on your performance review. It is just as important, if not more so than any grade I ever got in a class. All my employer wanted to know was did I have a degree, they never asked if I got an A or a B (or a C) in chemistry.
Trust me it is much worse.
While most of those ideas are too idealistic to ever work, one stuck out to me. Using a 1-5 scale, either for the course or for individual assignments, is much more forgiving in regard to the “randomness” of subjectivity in grading.
For example, me and two classmates may get 73%, 78%, and 83% on our tests. That could translate to 4, 4, and 5. Let the students know where the breaks are, and I would imagine that they would fall into the grade that is very representative of their skills (relatively).
^^^^ teachj is exactly right. After I graduated and began my job search, I can count on one hand how many companies asked about my grades (this out of probably 30-40 interviews). As for grad school, even though I managed a mediocre 2.8 in undergrad, I got a 740 on the GMAT, which I felt was more in line with my abilities. It seems that most grad schools tend to agree.
The one major flaw in your “Maximize Grade Objectivity” argument is that cheating would become much easier. Also, this works for subjects like mathematics, language, and (I’m holding back vomit) business related studies – BUT there is no possibility for testing creative abilities, comprehension, and an intellectual understanding of subjects that aren’t based upon logical progression. Possibly in some sort of Orwellian brain-factory might these kinds of testing requirements produce students who know how memorize useless trivial information that doesn’t particularly pertain to a central idea, but I’d rather have an artist than an encyclopedia.
To your other argument that we should just realize that markings have statistical commonality, and are mostly subjective I agree. However this can not necessarily be a weakness. Ideally in a perfect world an employer would give you a trial day on a job and discretely monitor your progress given certain tasks. In that way the follow up, phone calls and interview could completely be dismissed, you would understand what your job actually entails, and they would have better insight into the kind of employee you are, and not judge you based upon the kind of person you are…. Sadly though, I believe this approach is technically Socialism if not blatant Communism, and we all know what happens when people start going that route… We end up with public health care, and a sleep deprived student leaving comments digresses.
In the current world I’m more concerned with getting the BS out of every single document I sign, and not so much with a few numbers and whimsical comments made on my papers by some disillusioned academic, grasping for tenure and research funding, that views teaching as a side gig.
Boo hoo
“You have obviously not ever had a raise or a promotion hanging on the line based on your performance review. It is just as important, if not more so than any grade I ever got in a class.”
What is your POINT?
Grading is done elsewhere, therefore it is good?
Do you understand how illogical your reply is?
I guess he doesn’t…
Wouldn’t a fair system of grading also necessitate some kind of verifiable ban on guessing on the part of the student?
If grades are supposed to measure a students assimilation and comprehension of course materials then guessing on assignments and exams makes the process inherently flawed.
Can we allow decisions involving hiring and millions of dollars in scholarship money to be based upon results obtained through random chance?
You can’t even imagine what kind of monstrosity of Orwellian proportions you are imagining.
Fairness – if there was ever a word that should be ripped from the dictionary. It does not exist. Grow up and stop whining.
You will be graded throughout your entire life by your boss, your clients, your spouse, your family, nearly everyone you meet will have an informal or formal scale they will weigh you on. Nearly all work you do will be graded in some manner. Often it will be an illogical scale based on internal and many times totally subconscious scale.
People have biases. They should and might even try to suppress those biases when they become prejudices. But stop expecting fairness.
It’s not gonna happen. And your silly attempts at creating a Utopian socialistic academic wonderland is counterproductive to actually improving real academic grading systems.
Teachj – You seem to think because there are some foolish tendencies in the world that it is ‘right’ to simply just accept them. This is asinine, and though one should not expect for everything to be ‘fair’, there is absolutely nothing wrong about attempting to establish more fairness. It is completely correct that people may ignore similar arguments for fairness, but this isn’t because the arguments are inherently wrong or flawed, it’s because the way the system is set up is badly flawed and not representative of overall responsibility, ability, or intelligence. Many people also don’t do well in such a system because they simply don’t enjoy so much narrowness; it measures your ‘ability’ and ‘desire’ to function within a narrow system, which isn’t necessarily indicative of anything else. This pales in comparison to something that allows for more ideas to be shared and doesn’t turn a lot of people off. I repeat, acclimation to society isn’t necessarily a good thing which makes someone a better, worse, or more able person.
“That is all a waste of time. People will ignore most of it, because it has no relevance in the real world.”
People are ignorant and asinine, for the most part. They are trapped in a dispassionate and boring rat race of epic proportions. Surely, we should aim to fix this problem in as many ways as possible? However, I can understand that it’s very difficult to come up with solutions when few people listen. Nonetheless, just because something won’t happen due to misguided social forces doesn’t make the alternative wrong. It makes the situation regrettably hopeless, instead. So I agree, until a large shift happens, this ‘bullshit’ the author talks about won’t stop, but this isn’t because he’s wrong. He’s right. Society and it’s blind power struggles are wrong.
“In the end, writing is a craft and a lot more objective than peope who are struggling with their writing realize.”
I think this is a load of crap. From my point of view, I’ve seen my grades vary immensely from professor to professor. Papers others have wrote that have seemed like utter trash to me have many times scored higher than what I have wrote because they appeal more to the ‘conventional’ or exactly what the professor likes. I have much more experience with writing than most individuals my age as well. Writing isn’t as objective as you think, nor are others who supposedly ‘struggle’ (if defined by grades) in the dark about this. There are many different styles and elements of writing which can convey the same message in different ways that appeal to many people. Unless you lack basic sentence structure and connections between ideas are completely invisible, writing is at least 90% subjective.
“Fairness – if there was ever a word that should be ripped from the dictionary. It does not exist. Grow up and stop whining.”
Another ‘quityerbitchin’ argument. These really piss me off. Life isn’t fair? Well, then try to make it fair. Not going to happen? Well, that sucks. Wait for things to change but try not to drive yourself down a deep hole. However, life still morally SHOULD be fair, and we should strive as much as possible for it, not tell people to ‘stfu and stop whining’. Of course, nothing can happen 100%, but just abandoning the issue like this seems to be no more than a cop out.
The mindless, ignorant, hierarchical rat race isn’t ‘right’. It’s pathetic. It discourages meaning, relational knowledge, creativity, innovation, maturity, personal development, and so much more. It strikes me as arrogant that someone would just tell people to ‘get over it’ and portray the current system as ‘right’ essentially. I’m sure many people you say ‘are not ready to assimilate’ could assimilate if they truly want to, or aren’t dulled enough to the bullshit in society.
This comes in late, but I just felt like posting.
Grades have to be so objective that it makes this teacher sick. Get your facts straight. Better uet, do te classwork and stop complaining about ow everyone else is ruinig your academic career.
You guys ever teach college classes? I’m a TA. My parents teach ed psych. Try giving really good grades sometime, watch them get rejected and get a call from the Dean. I taught geometry for elementary teachers – literally 5th grade math to college students. Most had taken calc. Two people earned Bs. Guess who got a call the next day and had to assign A- grades to people with 96%?
Jesus guys, even better, get a disability relating to chronic wrist pain and see how often professors give you breaks on grading when you’re constantly late on homework. I love that look in their eyes when I see they think I’m using it to get out of my responsibilities. After failed surgery to control it in both wrists, and the inability to consistently take OTC meds with my diabetes without ravaging other organs, I’m gonna be reduced to begging my doctor for vicodin. About 60% of my teachers ever think I’m a total shithead.
I got a 1360 gre, 6/6 on the analytical writing, could read at 1 year old (I’m actually not kidding). I’m preptesting 170+ on the LSATs (now that is a test with a high level of accuracy and validity, and the statistics to show it!). With a 3.6 undergrad dual major in math and CS and 20 years of diabetes, 4 years of carpal tunnel and diabetic neuropathy at the same time. The son of an ed psych prof and a math prof myself. I’m fucking telling you, there are psychological factors involved, and I’ve been treated like a shithead enough to understand this. Only natural ability has gotten me this far.
This is right here, in the present, not the future.
Again, this loser complains about his inabiliys to make good grades. He keeps complaining on his pointless blog about how much his life sucks since he couldnt get good grades.
He thinks everyone else who did actually do hard work in school and get nice marks is a loser, becuz there better then him. and he knows it.
Hmmm – Your take on education makes me sick. Education is not about conforming to your teachers preferences. It’s about taking risks and engaging with material at a personal level. Teachers are there for the students, and not the other way around.
If the teacher likes democrats, be a democrat.
If the teacher likes republicans, be a republican
If the teacher hates Christianity, write your essays on the inquisition
A born-again protestant then write it about the flaws in mans nature
If the teacher requires that you not question their authority, don’t
if the teacher requires that you dress a certain way, do
think a certain way
act a certain way
be a certain way
All hail the Führer
(and they wonder why our society is deteriorating)
I think you miss the point. While perfect objectivity may be the ultimate aim, objectivity and subjectivity form a continuum rather than a dichotomy. As stated in the first article posted, the current minimum standard for objectivity in measurements, held by the scientific community at large, is 80%. While it may or may not be impossible to generate a perfectly objective grade, it is certainly possible to generate ones more objective than those generated in current practice. Consider, for example, your contention that a test created by a council of highly knowledgeable persons with varied interests, nationally or globally respected in the field of said test, which is repeatedly tested to ensure validity, efficiency, and objectivity, and which is reviewed and critiqued by the public at large is still subjective, which it is, and so no truer to the author of these posts’ ideal of objectivity than the now-industry-standard test compiled the night before or the morning of distribution, graded at least partially and often mostly on students’ conformance to the teacher’s belief system, rife with ambiguity, typos, and questions whose answers are themselves incorrect, with partial credit assigned in an arbitrary fashion or dependent, sometimes even overtly, on the teacher’s opinion of the students.
I agree that both of these tests are inherently subjective. I think that any rational person would disagree that the latter scenario contains the same level of subjectivity as the first.
Yes, without subjective grading how could we force our beliefs and societal norms upon the next generation? It can’t be done! We must perpetuate this method of societal brainwashing lest our children grow spiritually content, questioning, individualistic, and (gasp) active in their education and society at large! Think of the children!
Actually, life isn’t subjective.
‘Life’ must display the following characteristics:
Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, electrolyte concentration or sweating to reduce temperature.
Organization: Being structurally composed of one or more cells, which are the basic units of life.
Metabolism: Transformation of energy by converting chemicals and energy into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.
Growth: Maintenance of a higher rate of anabolism than catabolism. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter.
Adaptation: The ability to change over a period of time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism’s heredity as well as the composition of metabolized substances, and external factors present.
Response to stimuli: A response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism to external chemicals, to complex reactions involving all the senses of multicellular organisms. A response is often expressed by motion, for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun (phototropism) and by chemotaxis.
Reproduction: The ability to produce new individual organisms, either asexually from a single parent organism, or sexually from two parent organisms.
While the choice of definition is subjective, the accepted definition itself is objective in itself. That is to say, 100% of intelligent people who are given sufficient information about a subject and the accepted definition and asked to determine whether or not the subject is alive will agree on their conclusions.
|- Life is objective